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Captain Newland
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Joined: 08 Nov 2004
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Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 1:41 am Post subject: Alderaan shield

This is a continuation of the debate started in the "off-topic" section.

Quote:

[quote="dakarne"]

Quote:

That isn't a shield, that's atmospheric glow. Note how it travels along the cloud patterns.

no it travels along the planet itself, not the cloud patterns... that IS a shield.

Images:

There ya go. The brightest glow is alongthe cloud pattens.
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"This is not a battle, it is a search for the truth."
-Captain Sisko

"Now if the bitter taste of that is not palatable to you then I am truly sorry." -Captain Picard

"THERE ARE FOUR LIGHTS!" -Captain Picard

Scottish Ninja
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Joined: 21 Jan 2005
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Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 2:02 am Post subject:

Well, that seems to be somewhat damning. I might add that if people want to talk about the glow on the right side, that just looks like the night side of the planet getting lit up by the beam. _________________ "When Black Mage recently said, "Now I'm ejecting things I haven't eaten yet," I thought it was funny because it's impossible. But, wow, Kurt sure proved me wrong on that one today." ~ Brian Clevinger, 8-Bit Theater

DS615
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Joined: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 33
Location: SE MI

Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 5:41 am Post subject: Re: Alderaan shield

Captain Newland wrote:

There ya go. The brightest glow is alongthe cloud pattens.

Yeah? So when it gets brighter, the white stuff looks brighter than the blue stuff. I'm shocked. Rolling Eyes

Avatar Of Narendra III
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Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 6:08 am Post subject: Re: Alderaan shield

DS615 wrote:

Captain Newland wrote:

There ya go. The brightest glow is alongthe cloud pattens.

Yeah? So when it gets brighter, the white stuff looks brighter than the blue stuff. I'm shocked. Rolling Eyes

You seem to miss the point, the planet is brightened yes, but I have yet to see a shield that acts like that in the SW universe, the Droideka shields are spherical in shape yes, but a shield designed to protect from prolonged sieges would necessarily extend beyond the atmosphere, and logically appear as other shields in a vaccum.
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dakarne
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Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 11:26 am Post subject:

Quote:

There ya go. The brightest glow is alongthe cloud pattens.

Wow under a transparent glowing shield the white bit is brighter, how surprising, it's what happens when you put a bright transparent overlay over something, the white bit is brightest, I do work in graphic design, and it's external from the planet, not an atmospheric glow, if it was an atmospheric glow, it would be the same colour as the Superlaser: GREEN

Quote:

Well, there's a shield that acts like that in the starwars universe for you, just watch the alderaan scene. If it were merely brightened it would have been green. And who says it wasn't extended beyond the atmosphere. The Planet was shielded.
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Captain Newland
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Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 12:55 am Post subject:

Scottish Ninja wrote:

Well, that seems to be somewhat damning. I might add that if people want to talk about the glow on the right side, that just looks like the night side of the planet getting lit up by the beam.

Again, atmospheric glow.
_________________
"This is not a battle, it is a search for the truth."
-Captain Sisko

"Now if the bitter taste of that is not palatable to you then I am truly sorry." -Captain Picard

"THERE ARE FOUR LIGHTS!" -Captain Picard

Captain Newland
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Location: Bainbridge Island, WA

Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 12:56 am Post subject: Re: Alderaan shield

DS615 wrote:

Captain Newland wrote:

There ya go. The brightest glow is alongthe cloud pattens.

Yeah? So when it gets brighter, the white stuff looks brighter than the blue stuff. I'm shocked. Rolling Eyes

This actually hurts you. You see, it proves that you believe that there was no shield because the clouds are being vaporized, and are giving off more light.
_________________
"This is not a battle, it is a search for the truth."
-Captain Sisko

"Now if the bitter taste of that is not palatable to you then I am truly sorry." -Captain Picard

"THERE ARE FOUR LIGHTS!" -Captain Picard

Captain Newland
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Location: Bainbridge Island, WA

Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 12:59 am Post subject:

dakarne wrote:

Quote:

There ya go. The brightest glow is alongthe cloud pattens.

Really? Proof?

Quote:

Well, there's a shield that acts like that in the starwars universe for you, just watch the alderaan scene. If it were merely brightened it would have been green.

Proof?

Quote:

And who says it wasn't extended beyond the atmosphere.

Speculation without a shread of evidence to back it up. Get some evidence that the glow was outside the atmosphere, and we'll talk.

Quote:

The Planet was shielded.

Unsupported.
_________________
"This is not a battle, it is a search for the truth."
-Captain Sisko

"Now if the bitter taste of that is not palatable to you then I am truly sorry." -Captain Picard

"THERE ARE FOUR LIGHTS!" -Captain Picard

Avatar Of Narendra III
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Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 2:07 am Post subject:

dakarne wrote:

Quote:

There ya go. The brightest glow is alongthe cloud pattens.

May i reiterate, no shield has ever been seen to opperate like that outside of an atmosphere, and the only one that has been seen to by colored was the droideka (an infantry level shield in an atmosphere). Being above the atmosphere means that it should behave like every other shield ever seen in a vaccum
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Vympel
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Joined: 14 Nov 2004
Posts: 1275

Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 2:55 am Post subject: Re: Alderaan shield

Quote:

There ya go. The brightest glow is alongthe cloud pattens.

I can't speak for dakarne, but the fact that the glow is brightest at the clouds is evidence *for* a shield, not evidence against. There is absolutely no reason why this alleged "atmospheric glow" would selectively be most evident at clouds thousands of km apart- uniformly, I might add. See the concept of line of sight.

Quote:

We don't see SW shields in a vacuum. They're invisible. And it's quite obvious that the shield is extra-atmospheric in nature, the glow on the right-hand side extends well beyond any possible atmosphere of the planet.

Quote:

This actually hurts you. You see, it proves that you believe that there was no shield because the clouds are being vaporized, and are giving off more light.

"The clouds are being vaporized"- erm ... what?

dakarne
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Joined: 11 Mar 2005
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Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 4:47 pm Post subject:

Quote:

This actually hurts you. You see, it proves that you believe that there was no shield because the clouds are being vaporized, and are giving off more light.

I am truly laughing my own arse off: clouds ARE vapour, you can't vapourise vapour, sorry

Quote:

Really? Proof?

Get a flashlight, get green transparent plastic so the light is coloured green (the same as the superlaser) and shine it on a surface, does it go white? No. IT GOES GREEN.

Quote:

Well, that seems to be somewhat damning. I might add that if people want to talk about the glow on the right side, that just looks like the night side of the planet getting lit up by the beam.

Again, atmospheric glow.

hmm, should be green though, LIKE THE BLOODY SUPERLASER

Your logic and observation is flawed, young grasshopper
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Captain Newland
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Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 7:53 pm Post subject: Re: Alderaan shield

Vympel wrote:

Quote:

There ya go. The brightest glow is alongthe cloud pattens.

The clouds are much brighter than the rest of the atmosphere, which doesn't prove that there is aa shield. It merely proves that they were being vaporized.

Quote:

We don't see SW shields in a vacuum. They're invisible.

Precisely.

Quote:

And it's quite obvious that the shield is extra-atmospheric in nature, the glow on the right-hand side extends well beyond any possible atmosphere of the planet.

It does?

Quote:

This actually hurts you. You see, it proves that you believe that there was no shield because the clouds are being vaporized, and are giving off more light.

"The clouds are being vaporized"- erm ... what?

The clouds were being vaporized. What's so hard to understand?
_________________
"This is not a battle, it is a search for the truth."
-Captain Sisko

"Now if the bitter taste of that is not palatable to you then I am truly sorry." -Captain Picard

"THERE ARE FOUR LIGHTS!" -Captain Picard

Captain Newland
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Joined: 08 Nov 2004
Posts: 1598
Location: Bainbridge Island, WA

Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 7:55 pm Post subject:

Quote:

[quote="dakarne"]

Quote:

This actually hurts you. You see, it proves that you believe that there was no shield because the clouds are being vaporized, and are giving off more light.

I am truly laughing my own arse off: clouds ARE vapour, you can't vapourise vapour, sorry

But you can burn them off. That's what was happening.

Quote:

Really? Proof?

Get a flashlight, get green transparent plastic so the light is coloured green (the same as the superlaser) and shine it on a surface, does it go white? No. IT GOES GREEN.

Sorry, flawed experiment. You see, it only would glow green on what it was touching. The white clouds extended far beyond the point of impact.

Quote:

Well, that seems to be somewhat damning. I might add that if people want to talk about the glow on the right side, that just looks like the night side of the planet getting lit up by the beam.

Again, atmospheric glow.

hmm, should be green though, LIKE THE BLOODY SUPERLASER

See above.

Quote:

Your logic and observation is flawed, young grasshopper

Wrong, as I have shown.
_________________
"This is not a battle, it is a search for the truth."
-Captain Sisko

"Now if the bitter taste of that is not palatable to you then I am truly sorry." -Captain Picard

"THERE ARE FOUR LIGHTS!" -Captain Picard

dakarne
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Joined: 11 Mar 2005
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Location: England, Scoffing Commoners with some Fava Beans and a Nice Chianti

Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 8:04 pm Post subject:

Quote:

Sorry, flawed experiment. You see, it only would glow green on what it was touching. The white clouds extended far beyond the point of impact.

hmm, no it wouldn't light goes in all directions from any lightsource, not "Where it was touching", it doesn't just go green for a little while and then turn White, I'm afraid you need to brush up a little on science, infact, just shine a coloured lightbulb, everything around it (the room for instance if it's on a tablelamp) will have a hue the same as the lightbulb, the same counts for the Superlaser

it was a shield, case closed.

And the REST of the planet underneath was glowing too, so don't try using that same old cop-out.

Quote:

But you can burn them off. That's what was happening.

Hmm, Clouds just tend to dissappear when that happens, and the planet underneath should have been molten rock by the bloody way
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Captain Newland
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Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 8:17 pm Post subject:

dakarne wrote:

Quote:

Sorry, flawed experiment. You see, it only would glow green on what it was touching. The white clouds extended far beyond the point of impact.

hmm, no it wouldn't light goes in all directions from any lightsource, not "Where it was touching", it doesn't just go green for a little while and then turn White,

When did I ever dispute that? I said that the green glow is limited to what the beam touches.

Quote:

I'm afraid you need to brush up a little on science, infact, just shine a coloured lightbulb, everything around it (the room for instance if it's on a tablelamp)

There you go. It depends on what kind of lamp it is. A flashlight would be best for this situation, though.

Quote:

will have a hue the same as the lightbulb, the same counts for the Superlaser

Which, using your own analogy, would only make green what it's beam impacts with.

Quote:

it was a shield, case closed.

It wasn't a shield.

Quote:

And the REST of the planet underneath was glowing too, so don't try using that same old cop-out.

The atmosphere was glowing, as was what was below. This doesn't help you.

Quote:

But you can burn them off. That's what was happening.

Hmm, Clouds just tend to dissappear when that happens, and the planet underneath should have been molten rock by the bloody way

Hmm. Let's take another look.

This is the last image in the sequence I provided. Note the red blowing away from the right side of the planet. In earlier pics, the destruction would of course have been covered by the atmospheric glow, which was, as shown, almost opaque.
_________________
"This is not a battle, it is a search for the truth."
-Captain Sisko

"Now if the bitter taste of that is not palatable to you then I am truly sorry." -Captain Picard

"THERE ARE FOUR LIGHTS!" -Captain Picard

Avatar Of Narendra III
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Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 5:55 am Post subject:

Why is it that everyone is ignoring the fact that SW shields do not radiate light in the manner that we see in the visuals... If there where a shield it would produce a flash at the point of impact, as all other weapon/shield interactions in extra-atmospheric conditions. _________________ mIghtaHghachvo' yImej 'ej yIQaQ! roj yInej 'ej yItlha ghuy'cha yo' Do unto the other fellow as he would do unto you, and do it first.

dakarne
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Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 9:51 am Post subject:

Quote:

Why is it that everyone is ignoring the fact that SW shields do not radiate light in the manner that we see in the visuals... If there where a shield it would produce a flash at the point of impact, as all other weapon/shield interactions in extra-atmospheric conditions.

because that WAS a flash of light, indicative of a shield...

plus (to scottish ninja) an energy beam like the superlaser would radiate light in all directions since it's visible from the side, stop making the same old arguements.
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Vympel
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Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 10:17 am Post subject: Re: Alderaan shield

Captain Newland wrote:

The clouds are much brighter than the rest of the atmosphere, which doesn't prove that there is aa shield. It merely proves that they were being vaporized.

Don't be ridiculous. If that were the case, we'd see them getting vaporized- they don't. They retain their shape throughout.

Quote:

Precisely.

Precisely what?

Quote:

It does?

Absolutely. You don't for a second believe that atmosphere extends that far out, do you?

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