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Alderaan shield
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dakarne
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2005 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Death Star would be immune to most Fed ships, the Death Star could probably ram a planet and cause more than enough damage to wipe out a large continent, maybe the entire planet if the reactor exploded.

And, according to my own interpretation of Alderaan it is shielded, enough said.
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BigHairyMountainMan
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2005 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vympel wrote:
I don't see how it can possibly be "firmly incorrect" in light of the evidence and your own shoulder-shrugging about which is which- with a clearly inadequate explanation for the shots of the Death Star set against the entirety of Endor.
Perspective is hardly shoulder-shrugging. What is shoulder-shrugging is claiming distortion in order to throw out a large set of shots ... and then ignoring the issue quantification of that distortion.

You have two options, basically speaking: Either the Death Star mk 2 is inconsistently portrayed (or changes dramatically) with regard to size and/or orbital height, or a rather small fraction of Endor's size. Your choice is to either chalk up the difference to perspective effects (plausible), or conclude VFX error (gets you nowhere in establishing DS2's size and is contrary to your ideology).
Vympel wrote:
Quote:
A DS2 size of 160 km does not assume any distortion caused by hyperspace jumps.
Sarli, whom you linked to, does, actually.
Whom I linked to as an interesting footnote for further reading on the topic. I did not rely upon or reuse his work in my post at all.
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Vympel
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2005 1:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BigHairyMountainMan wrote:
Perspective is hardly shoulder-shrugging. What is shoulder-shrugging is claiming distortion in order to throw out a large set of shots ... and then ignoring the issue quantification of that distortion.

You have two options, basically speaking: Either the Death Star mk 2 is inconsistently portrayed (or changes dramatically) with regard to size and/or orbital height, or a rather small fraction of Endor's size. Your choice is to either chalk up the difference to perspective effects (plausible), or conclude VFX error (gets you nowhere in establishing DS2's size and is contrary to your ideology).


Your reference of vague "perspective" is exactly equivalent to claiming distortion in order to throw out several shots, you know.
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BigHairyMountainMan
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2005 3:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vympel wrote:
Your reference of vague "perspective" is exactly equivalent to claiming distortion in order to throw out several shots, you know.
Vague? Not at all. Hold two tennis balls in front of you, one on your nose and one at arm's length. The farther one will "look smaller." This is perspective.

What is claimed to throw out the shots of the Death Star over Endor's horizon is that a particular peculiar sort of angular distortion is present in addition to the basic perspective problem of distance. The approach shots establish an orbital height that makes this outright impossible, and taken with the horizon shots, leave it impossible for the size distortion of perspective to play a significant role. If you want to discuss the matter further, however, you should address your concerns to the thread in question.

As it is rather off-topic in this thread, I will not address your concerns about the Death Star's size further in this topic. Arrow Let discussion here remain directly relevant to the topic of Alderaan having or not having a shield, and the qualitative nature of such a shield.
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dakarne
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2005 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did see a shield there, not atmospheric glow, surprisingly enough the planet looked fine below, so it wasn't an atmospheric glow
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Mr. Oragahn
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At least the DVD version removed the overall blue tint which could be used for the following argument:

"There's a big planetary shield, half opaque, akin to the shield of the droidekas, which happens to be be blue and tint the planet."

This ones dies, at least.
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dakarne
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

there are other shields that act like the one that (sort of) intercepted the Super Laser...

For Example: on mustafar, there are blue-white shields that frame the buildings which are built into the volcano.

and those shields act a surprisingly large amount like the percieved ones on alderaan...
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SailorSaturumon13
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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2005 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First, such shields are very small, compared to Alderaan! And second, do they produce asimmetrical rings on collapse?
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dakarne
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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2005 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
First, such shields are very small, compared to Alderaan! And second, do they produce asimmetrical rings on collapse?


The Facility didn't explode, the shields were turned off, plus, how do you know what a planet exploding would look like?

And the shields may have been completely UNRELATED to the WAY the planet exploded, they're just there to try and prevent it (read: Try).

Very small isn't an issue, the entirely large building and really small droids were shielded the same way, so what's to say a MUCH BIGGER version wasn't in place on alderaan
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BigHairyMountainMan
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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2005 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dakarne wrote:
And the shields may have been completely UNRELATED to the WAY the planet exploded, they're just there to try and prevent it (read: Try).
Given the magnitude of the ring(s), I'd say the shields aren't related to the ring(s) at all.
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McAvoy
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2005 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the planet is Earth sized, the aura that covers the planet regardless if it's a shield or or not, looks like it's extending past the surface by 100 kilometers give or take. Now I am sure I am stating something that already has been discussed many, many times before but, what the hell:

Has anyone considered regardless if there's a shield or not, that the effect of the superlaser hitting the atmosphere would cause it to glow? Would that be too hard to agree on?
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The Swede
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2005 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SailorSaturumon13 wrote:
First, such shields are very small, compared to Alderaan! And second, do they produce asimmetrical rings on collapse?

What have the shields to do with the asymmetrical rings? The shields collapsed before the planar rings.
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SailorSaturumon13
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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2005 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Swede wrote:
SailorSaturumon13 wrote:
First, such shields are very small, compared to Alderaan! And second, do they produce asimmetrical rings on collapse?

What have the shields to do with the asymmetrical rings? The shields collapsed before the planar rings.


Tell Quadlock that.
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The Swede
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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2005 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SailorSaturumon13 wrote:
The Swede wrote:
SailorSaturumon13 wrote:
First, such shields are very small, compared to Alderaan! And second, do they produce asimmetrical rings on collapse?

What have the shields to do with the asymmetrical rings? The shields collapsed before the planar rings.


Tell Quadlock that.

I do find that strange...
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GStone
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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2005 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

McAvoy wrote:
If the planet is Earth sized, the aura that covers the planet regardless if it's a shield or or not, looks like it's extending past the surface by 100 kilometers give or take. Now I am sure I am stating something that already has been discussed many, many times before but, what the hell:

Has anyone considered regardless if there's a shield or not, that the effect of the superlaser hitting the atmosphere would cause it to glow? Would that be too hard to agree on?


I can see atmospheric glow happening, yes.
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Mr. Oragahn
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

McAvoy wrote:
If the planet is Earth sized, the aura that covers the planet regardless if it's a shield or or not, looks like it's extending past the surface by 100 kilometers give or take. Now I am sure I am stating something that already has been discussed many, many times before but, what the hell:

Has anyone considered regardless if there's a shield or not, that the effect of the superlaser hitting the atmosphere would cause it to glow? Would that be too hard to agree on?


Super fast extending atmosphere isn't out of question, and we've seen that the coronal glow - which some people claim to be evidence for the planetary shield - doesn't even extend beyond planetary radius, which definitively shoots down the argument of the glowing and encompassing shield.
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The Swede
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

McAvoy wrote:
If the planet is Earth sized, the aura that covers the planet regardless if it's a shield or or not, looks like it's extending past the surface by 100 kilometers give or take. Now I am sure I am stating something that already has been discussed many, many times before but, what the hell:

Has anyone considered regardless if there's a shield or not, that the effect of the superlaser hitting the atmosphere would cause it to glow? Would that be too hard to agree on?


Mr. Oragahn wrote:
Super fast extending atmosphere isn't out of question, and we've seen that the coronal glow - which some people claim to be evidence for the planetary shield - doesn't even extend beyond planetary radius, which definitively shoots down the argument of the glowing and encompassing shield.

It's good to see you back, Mr. Oragahn!

The glow DOES extend beyond the planet's radius, as evidenced in screenshots. The precise point where the superlaser beam hits the planetary shield can also be discerned.
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Captain Newland
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Swede wrote:
McAvoy wrote:
If the planet is Earth sized, the aura that covers the planet regardless if it's a shield or or not, looks like it's extending past the surface by 100 kilometers give or take. Now I am sure I am stating something that already has been discussed many, many times before but, what the hell:

Has anyone considered regardless if there's a shield or not, that the effect of the superlaser hitting the atmosphere would cause it to glow? Would that be too hard to agree on?


Mr. Oragahn wrote:
Super fast extending atmosphere isn't out of question, and we've seen that the coronal glow - which some people claim to be evidence for the planetary shield - doesn't even extend beyond planetary radius, which definitively shoots down the argument of the glowing and encompassing shield.

It's good to see you back, Mr. Oragahn!

The glow DOES extend beyond the planet's radius, as evidenced in screenshots. The precise point where the superlaser beam hits the planetary shield can also be discerned.

Um, if I may just interject here for a moment, the glow does NOT extend beyond the planet radius. This is apparent because when we see Alderaan, it is not in a perfect circle. Some of the right side is missing, which is the fault of the sun (it was night time over there). Here are a few screencaps. (modified silghtly by G2K).






We could not see the full planet because of the night time on the right side, and it therefor LOOKED as if there was a shield of some sort, but it is simply more atmospheric glow.
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